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I understand that they're upset

I really do understand that they're angry. I truly do. It's painful to have supported something you believe in so strongly and not prevail. There are few things more emotionally difficult than coming in second, because you were so close. I've been there myself. I was never a fan of hers, but I do genuinely and sincerely sympathize with what many of them are feeling right now.

That being said, supporters of Hillary Clinton who are threatening to vote for McCain need to learn the definition of cutting off one's nose to spite one's face.

Comments

( 19 comments — Leave a comment )
(Anonymous)
Jun. 9th, 2008 07:33 pm (UTC)
The only way I would vote for Obama, is if he puts Hillary on the ticket. But think about this, if he puts her on the ticket, HE wins, and we get Hill as VP. If he doesn't, he'll LOSE, and he'll lose bIG for 2 reasons, clearly a wek general election candidate, and because the 18 million ' cracks' stayed at home or crossed to McCain.

GO MCCain!!!
pointedview
Jun. 9th, 2008 07:37 pm (UTC)
Hello. May I ask who you are, and how you found this post?

This is a journal, rather than a blog (hence, LiveJournal). As such, it's part of a community, and it's polite to introduce yourself and conduct yourself appropriately.

As for your comment, logic dictates that we vote for the platform that best represents our beliefs. For those who count themselves as Democrats, I find it hard to believe that McCain's ideology is closer than Obama's.
catarzyna
Jun. 9th, 2008 07:42 pm (UTC)
It is really stupid to be a Hillary supporter and then vote for McCain. Clearly you should vote for the best available candidate not for vengeance or spite. Cause seriously if we get another 4 years continuing the Bush administration I am going to spit nails.

I wish your readers and those with the same perspective would honor Hillary’s wishes that her supporters vote for her choice, Obama. We must really consider the folly of voting in such an ill-advised manner. I, too am a woman, and I want a woman president but as she said, it will be easier now that that glass ceil has 18 million cracks in it.

Even more than that, I want a responsible government. I do not care if a man or a woman leads it. You’d think the last 8 years would be enough to warrant some careful thought about who our next president will be even if your 1st choice isn’t available.

Consider this… if you vote for McCain… you are still voting for a man.
pointedview
Jun. 9th, 2008 09:39 pm (UTC)
If you spit nails, I'll try to crochet you a nail cozy. :D

I'm not sure these are "my" readers -- they appear to be CNN's readers. It seems that this post got linked by a plug-in they use called Sphere that aggregates blog posts that have linked to their news stories.

Like you, I don't care who leads as long as they're competent. Heck, I've lowered my expectations almost to the point that I'll just be pleased to have someone in there who can pronounce nuclear correctly.
catarzyna
Jun. 9th, 2008 10:04 pm (UTC)
If you spit nails, I'll try to crochet you a nail cozy. :D

You've got a deal!

I'm not sure these are "my" readers -- they appear to be CNN's readers. It seems that this post got linked by a plug-in they use called Sphere that aggregates blog posts that have linked to their news stories.

I was using that rather term loosely. I wasn't aware that was a possibility. Personally I think you handled their 'trollishness' rather well.

Like you, I don't care who leads as long as they're competent. Heck, I've lowered my expectations almost to the point that I'll just be pleased to have someone in there who can pronounce nuclear correctly.

It is a standard at least. Having a president who has a grasp of the English language would be refreshing. I wonder how good Bush would do taking those standardized tests he requires of our children.

Personally, I can see the benefits of having either Clinton or Obama as our next president. Politically it makes sense for Obama to choose Clinton as his VP but we will have to wait and see. I was relieved to hear John Edwards was out of the running for that. He just seems too milquetoast. Although, he may yet prove me wrong. I have a colleague who is highly educated (PhD, almost X2) and makes a very strong case for Obama by comparing him to Abraham Lincoln. So we will see what this inexperienced lanky gentleman from Illinois can accomplish.
pointedview
Jun. 9th, 2008 10:23 pm (UTC)
Re: trollishness, thank you very much. :) I'm delighted to have folks come and chat, as long as they mind their manners.

I wonder how good Bush would do taking those standardized tests he requires of our children.

Good point!

Not to sound like practically everyone else, but I think Edwards is a possible choice for Attorney General. He strikes me as one of those soft-spoken Southern lawyers who's steel inside a cotton glove.

That's interesting about your colleague's assessment on Obama.
catarzyna
Jun. 9th, 2008 10:32 pm (UTC)
Not to sound like practically everyone else, but I think Edwards is a possible choice for Attorney General. He strikes me as one of those soft-spoken Southern lawyers who's steel inside a cotton glove.

This will be something I am going to watch.

One more point I forgot to make...

I do not understand why people do not exercise their right to vote, even if the choice is difficult. We have such privileges that we so easily squander.
pointedview
Jun. 9th, 2008 10:51 pm (UTC)
I do not understand why people do not exercise their right to vote, even if the choice is difficult. We have such privileges that we so easily squander.

catarzyna, you are so very right on this. There are many people in the world at this very moment who lack the right to vote for their officials.

In honor of my grandmother, who was old enough that for part of her life she could not vote, I always make it a point to go pull the lever, and have done so ever since I was of age. It may or may not be for a major party candidate, but I am participating in the process.
(Deleted comment)
catarzyna
Jun. 10th, 2008 02:41 am (UTC)
Re: Sex in the City
Do not make any assumptions about me. You don't know me.

I'm really not sure how the Sex in the City movie has anything to do with this. At most I've seen 2-3 episodes of the series because a friend wanted me to see it. I'm not a fan and I could really care less about that movie.

Edwards, Obama... please... vote responsibly not reactionary or emotionally.

Again, do not make assumptions about my reasoning. I vote very responsibly.

Perhaps you should troll somewhere else.
(Anonymous)
Jun. 9th, 2008 08:01 pm (UTC)
Not Voting!!
I found your journal via CNN.

Attempting to be as civil as possible, I will say this. I'm really tired of Obama supporters telling people how they MUST vote. The last time I looked, every American who can vote has the right to vote how he or she pleases. Others don't have a right to basically dictate how one should and must vote.

I'm not a Clinton supporter, so this isn't sour grapes. I'm not throwing a tantrum. I'm not being childish. I'm simply saying that I'm not voting in November, for anyone!! Neither is anyone in my family. We wouldn't even if he put Clinton on the ticket as VP.

Obama and his supporters keep talking about change. Nothing is going to change under an Obama presidency. Nothing is going to change under any presidency. Obama isn't going to come in, wave his magic wand, and make everything all better. It's not going to happen.

Clinton may have told Democrats to support Obama, but that means absolutely nothing to me. I don't take orders from anyone including her. Unlike a lot of people in this country, I know how to think for myself instead of doing what others tell me to do.

My mind is not going to be changing between now and election day, no matter what Obama, Clinton, and their supporters say or do.



pointedview
Jun. 9th, 2008 08:30 pm (UTC)
Re: Not Voting!!
First off, thank you very, very much. I recently enabled the option in my LJ to allow non-LiveJournal posters to post, pretty much so that two friends who are not on LJ could post easily. Ever since that time, I've been getting these random people from across the 'net commenting on things. It appears that CNN uses a service called Sphere to provide feeds for their "From the Blogs" section. I checked, and I do have the option to remove myself ... I just have to decide whether the signal-to-noise ratio is problematic enough to do that.

I hear what you're saying about being told how to vote. I myself voted Libertarian in every single election before Bush vs. Kerry because I couldn't stomach voting for the lesser of two bad choices when I thought they were both pretty rotten. In the last presidential election, I just felt it was too crucial not to re-elect Bush, and extremely important to vote after what occurred in 2000 with Gore.

For the record, I do not count myself as a Democrat, a Republican, or even a "little L" Libertarian any more. I'm just an independent who counts herself as pro-autonomy and civil liberties. I certainly respect your right, and everyone's right, to select the candidate of their choice, or to cast a protest vote. It's just that, to my ears, and to the ears of many, the "I'm voting for McCain!" posts sound like an angry, emotional, illogical reaction to her loss. An understandable one -- it's a fresh injury. I'm not being condescending -- like I say, I've been there myself, and I sympathize. Indeed, this is the first time the candidate I voted for in the primary ever even made it to the nomination. (I was a Tsongas supporter back in 1992, for example.)

You say you are not a Clinton supporter. Okay. If you weren't a Clinton supporter, and you're not supporting Obama and McCain, were you simply not planning to vote from the outset? If so, not to sound pointed, but then why are you expending energy on any of this unless you had planned to vote for Clinton had she been the nominee?

I can see casting a protest vote. I can see abstaining from voting. I can even see writing your candidate's name in. All of those seem like reasonable options when the candidate you wanted to vote for is no longer in the race. What doesn't make sense to me is casting a vote for a candidate who would have run in opposition to your preferred candidate had that person remained in the race.

Thank you for your post.
(Anonymous)
Jun. 10th, 2008 02:47 am (UTC)
Re: Not Voting!!
Actually no, I wasn't planning to not vote in this election from the outset. In fact, the one person that I would actually consider giving my vote to will not be on the ballot in my state. My state also doesn't allow for write-in votes.

You asked a great question about why I'm spending any of my time talking about this. The fact is, this is about me too. Despite the fact that I'm not a Clinton supporter, people have chosen to lump me into the category of "disgruntled, grumbling" Democrats who could spoil the election for Obama because I'm not voting. Thus, I feel the need to speak about it.

Unlike the suggestion that was made, I can't shut my mouth and I won't shut my mouth. As a citizen of this country, I have a right to voice my opinion regardless of the popularity of it.


(Anonymous)
Jun. 9th, 2008 09:01 pm (UTC)
Re: Not Voting!!
If you decide to not vote then you should also decide to not complain. In politics there is no perfect candidate but you have to be clear minded and review what the options are before you. Your three options are:
1) Obama - holds to the principles of the democratic party (civil liberties and rights, women's issues, fair taxation of the rich and anti Iraqi war)
2) McCain - 100 years in Iraq, tax cuts for the already rich and priveledged, abolish Roe v wade, oil company proponent
3) Do nothing.

If you choose option three then you should hold to option 3 and keep your mouth shut whatever the result. This country will not be better under another Republican administration - especially with someone like McCain who could not distiguish between Al-Quida and other terrorist groups while standing on their soil.
pointedview
Jun. 9th, 2008 09:10 pm (UTC)
Re: Not Voting!!
Hello. I'm assuming you are one of the people who has come from CNN, since this post is apparently featured there today. As such, you are a guest in my virtual house, and I expect you to behave yourself. Telling another poster to "keep their mouth shut" is impolite, and will get your content deleted.

Furthermore, in addition to your incivility, you have also neglected to mention other options that are available. There are more than three. In addition to selecting Obama, selecting McCain, or abstaining, one can also choose the Libertarian Party candidate, another third-party candidate, or one can write in a selection.

Edited at 2008-06-09 09:27 pm (UTC)
(Anonymous)
Jun. 9th, 2008 08:16 pm (UTC)
.02
http://savannahnow.com/node/511791

(Anonymous)
Jun. 10th, 2008 01:10 am (UTC)
A CNN Poster
Hello, I'm glad I found your journal and thus far it is very interesting. I am a 32 year old woman, life long democrat, liberal as they come, affluent, educated, blah blah blah. I want to be honest to let you know that I, too, have actually considered voting McCain out of disdain for the DNC and the recent suspension of the Clinton campaign. I donated to her campaign, volunteered and was a delegate in Texas. Of course I won't go to McCain. But I'd like to prove a point. But, hey, you, me, us, we can't afford to make a point right now.

I just want to say, "Hey, we are all a little emotional right now." I won't jump ship but I am a bit disillusioned and will probably vote independent. Ron Paul, Baby.

I think and hope that this is the case for most dems claiming that they will go to McCain. Personally, I despise Obama, but know that our country can't handle another Bushie 4 years. As a liberal, libertarian, independent, democrat - whatever you are... I think the goal is to catch flies with honey, not vinegar. I urge you to treat the Hillary supporters gently and coax them back to reality.

Calling them names, berating them, etc., will only drive them further to the "other side".

Thanks for letting me jump on this soapbox.
(Anonymous)
Jun. 10th, 2008 03:05 am (UTC)
Re: A CNN Poster
I would like to respectfully disagree with two statements you made.

You said that we can't afford to make a point right now. If not now, when? Two years from now? Four years from now? Eight years from now? Never? There is never a "perfect" time to make a point. But a point still has to be made.

This is really not about sticking it to the DNC or Obama. This is about making a point. Just because Hillary came out and told her supporters and all Democrats to back Obama doesn't mean that it's going to happen. No candidate has a RIGHT to my vote and support. It has to be earned. That's one thing that the Obama camp and its supporters seem to be missing here.

Can we afford to keep going down the path that we've been on for the last eight years? Absolutely not. The problem is, some people in this country are under the delusion that everything is going to instantly change once Obama takes the oath. It's not!! Racism is not going away. Poverty is not going away. War is not going away. Homelessness is not going away. Hunger is not going away. Joblessness is not going away. Our problems are not going away.

The other comment that I disagree with is that Hillary supporters need to be coaxed back to reality. Most people are living in reality. Most people understand the reality that we're facing. I've already stated that I'm not a Hillary supporter. I'm not voting in November. I understand the reality of the situation, and yet I'm still willing to make my point.
pointedview
Jun. 10th, 2008 05:40 am (UTC)
Re: A CNN Poster
Hello, welcome, and thank you for posting! :)

I can wholly understand feeling exasperated with the DNC. I absolutely support your right to vote for Ron Paul or another candidate that you find preferable to the two main choices. People fussed at me for years for voting Libertarian and "throwing my vote away." I pointed out that it wasn't throwing my vote away to vote for the candidate in the race that came closest to my beliefs. Don't let anyone tell you anything different.

Now, I'm not entirely brave. I'll confess that there's a part of me that hopes that, well, not too many Clinton supporters vote for Paul or another candidate, because I'm worried that it will narrow the race too much and we'll end up with a spoiler situation. I fret that we'll get four more years of Republican rule if too many folks do this. And yet, despite my fears about that, I don't feel I can ethically do else but to tell you to vote your conscience as long as you're voting for the candidate you feel is closest to what you think is right.

I agree with you that name-calling will only alienate her followers. Frankly, all the Obamaniacs should pipe down and be quiet for a bit, just to allow a little time to pass out of respect. (I like Obama well enough, but he's ticked me off here and there. He ain't perfect.) Last year, very few would've seen the shoe on this foot, so there's no call to antagonize the sisters and brothers who supported her. If the Democrats are going to be united and all be in this together, then it's not productive to destroy the party from within with internal bickering. House divided cannot stand, and all that.

Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts, and for visiting and checking out the other posts in my journal as well!
(Anonymous)
Jun. 10th, 2008 03:20 pm (UTC)
Re: A CNN Poster
You are so right about this - (the spoiler situation). It's nagging at me too. Who knows. Wish someone had all the answers!!


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